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Changes to the New Points System

UserPost

7:47 am
December 10, 2010


admin

Admin

posts 221

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Well, the results of the poll on the side of the page have indicated that about half of you would like to see changes to the new points system.  Well…..what do you want to happen????  Please give your thoughts!

 

…..personally I think last years scoring was just fine CoolLaughSurprised………

3:41 am
December 11, 2010


Oneskeeter

Largemouth

posts 172

2
0

Current Mr. Bass starts out with a 50# deficit! CoolSurprisedWink

Mel Hedrick
2013 Maple Bassmasters
Tournament Director

7:52 am
December 13, 2010


admin

Admin

posts 221

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Post edited 8:05 pm – December 14, 2010 by Millertime


Vetoed.

5:56 pm
December 13, 2010


Oneskeeter

Largemouth

posts 172

4
0

Jeesh…you can't even spell it right!  Embarassed

Mel Hedrick
2013 Maple Bassmasters
Tournament Director

11:36 pm
December 13, 2010


Keats

Tinley Park, Il

Lunker

posts 53

5
0

I liked last years system but I feel it should be tweaked a little. One example would be to either give more than 1 pt per pound of fish caught (maybe 5points per lb), or I suggest starting our points at 50 for first place 49 for second 47 third and so on. And we keep fish weight at 1 point per pound (easier to keep track). If you don't catch a fish you still get 1/2 of the points of the last place guy who caught a fish (probably around 20 or so). Reason for my thoughts are you have a better chance of catching the leader by "catching fish". Everyone will still be able to hang in the chase by just showing up and/or catching 1 fish but towards the end of the season It will pay off to actually catch more weight and make up ground with the fish weight actually meaning something. With our current system if you catch 1 fish you are usually not that far behind someone who caught a limit. Usually within 10 points or so. I hope this makes sense to you guys.

2010 MAPLE BASSMASTERS PERSONNEL DIRECTOR

5:31 am
December 14, 2010


BigjoeyB

Chicago

Lunker

posts 84

6
0

Watch out Zach sounds like keats is after Mr. Bass

We will look at the points system at the next board meeting, and need any input from members speak now or forever hold your piece

Big Joey b
Following someone doesn't mean they know were the Fish are!!
Find em Your Self!!

9:48 am
December 14, 2010


Ralph Sweat

Largemouth

posts 158

7
0

well you get no bad views from me the points system is  fine the way it is i fished almost all the tournments last year ..didnt catch many fish .but it workrd for me cause all the time i put in sure i d like to catch more fish ..where would be the insentive to fish all the time if your not as good as the rest …..  my thought is   this ok you go to sturgen bay and catch a bunch then lay down while you watch everyone spend money on going to catch up .. then  you come back out for a couple  of bouts …to be on top i spent alot of money and donated alot of time in 2010 like many others …LET IT BE  THIS IS A GREAT HELP TO THE NON BOATER AND NEW PEOPLE TOO ..LETS FOCUS ON OTHER IMPORTANT ISSUES

7:03 pm
December 14, 2010


admin

Admin

posts 221

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Post edited 8:07 pm – December 14, 2010 by Millertime


Here is my 2 cents.  I think some will like it, and others will not.  But oh well.

 

Lets review what the point system does.

1) Creates AOY/ROY

2) Creates Mr. Bass

3) Creates our 6 man team

 

1) I think we are all in agreement that the AOY and ROY format we currently have works great, and no need to change it. 

 

2) Lets define what Mr. Bass means.  Mr. Bass goes to the person who has participated in the most tournaments, participated in the most meetings, participated in our shows, and caught fish along the way.  Which means the winner of Mr. Bass has put forth a lot of effort towards helping the club throughout the year.  He has taken non-boaters out (if he's a boater:), he has made the journey to our 2-day tourneys, and he has helped at all the events.  Mr. Bass is a 'club award' so it should go to the person who has given the most to the club.  Does the current system reward the people that partcipate the most in the club?  I think we all would agree that it does.

 

3) Does the current system put forth the best 6-man team Maple can possibly put together?  No it does not. I believe this is where some changes need to be made.  How can we objectivly put together the best 6-man team?  I don't have a perfect answer, but one idea (actually my wife came up with it Surprised) is to have the AOY standings determine the 6-man team.  The AOY standings reveal the anglers who catch fish, PERIOD.  It completely takes participation out of it, and rewards those who come in with fish.  These are the guys I would want on our Number 1 Six-Man team and representing the club at the state level. 

One problem with this idea is that one could argue that participation would go down towards the second half of the season because if they are not in the running to win Mr. Bass, why would I keep attending tournaments?  The answer is…..to make the 6-man team.  Lets use the example of Tommy Ondras (sorry Tommy Laugh)  I think most of us are in agreement that Tommy is one of the best fisherman in the club.  This past year, he wasn't able to make a lot of tournaments, so he quickly fell behind in the standings.  Now, does Tommy have any incentive to keep attending tournaments and spend the money traveling with the current system in place?  No!  With the current system, he was out of the running to make the top six in points and have his trip to the 6-man paid for, so why should he attend?  Now, if it were based on AOY standings, towards the end of the season last year, does Tommy still have a shot to make the team?  Absolutely!  He didn't fish the last 9 tournaments of the year, and fell short of the top 6 in AOY standings by just over 10 lbs.  So one can argue that this proposed system would deter people from participating, but I think it would actually HELP with participation for those anglers in the club who might not be able to attend all the tournaments. 

Lets look at this past years AOY standing (with the names ommited).

 

These were the weights

1) 79.35
2) 65.24
3) 53.21
4) 53.17
5) 47.43
6) 45.81
7) 42.00
8) 40.67
9) 35.66
10)34.18

 

Look at 7 through 10.  Would there still have an incentinve to attend as many tournaments as possible if you were sitting in 7-10?  Yes!  10th place is just over 10 lbs out!  This can be made up in one tournament!  Now you have a system where guys can make up pounds, not points, to make the 6-man team.  And these guys,  catching POUNDS, are the ones I want representing the club at the state level.

 

Hope all that made sense.  Any questions? LaughLaughLaugh

9:28 pm
December 14, 2010


Keats

Tinley Park, Il

Lunker

posts 53

9
0

Zach,

     sounds like it makes sense. We will see what others have to say about it. Ralph I agree that Sturgeon Bay produced most of our weight this year but I missed Sturgeon Bay in 2009 and had to make a comeback to be Mr.Bass.  I was able to make that comeback because of fish weight, not show up points. I missed about 8 fishing days that year.  I would not have been able to make up ground with this system. If the guy I was trying to catch just showed up to the rest ot the tournaments  and caught 1 fish. Every member has the opportunity to go to these "Big Fish" lakes like Sturgeon and Kentucky Lake , some just choose not to go. I agree with Ralph that this point system helps new guys and nonboaters but I think Zachs Idea helps participation, for new guys and nonboaters as well. We lost alot of participation towards the end of the year since Mr.Bass ran away with the lead.

2010 MAPLE BASSMASTERS PERSONNEL DIRECTOR

5:49 am
December 15, 2010


Oneskeeter

Largemouth

posts 172

10
0

Guys,

You need to remember one thing…The "Club" IS about participation. It does not live for the 6 man team. Just because we may not put the best 6 fishermen in it is not our biggest concern. The six man team is a reward for working hard for the club! The way we have it now provides the opportunity to the average angler to experience the show. Yes, I would love to have a top notch team every time we go to the SQ and we do have that with our second team.  But I for one am not willing to cut out the opportunity for the average angler to make it. I have been on 2 state teams as both Jimmy and Tom Ondras I believe and I bet they would agree that it is an awesome experience that everyone4 should have a chance to work hard and get. It's not about picking your 6 best lakes to fish and only going to them because you know them and will catch alot of fish. It is about being invoved with the club and being consistant. Remember this is a real Club, we are not a six man paper club that is built around making it to the six man…every year. Guys have to be involved and work for the club at every function to make it. One or two good tournaments for someone should not decide whether he should be on the team. Remove everyones weight for a Sturgeon Bay event and see what the standings look like. It is all about consistancy and committment to the club…that is what makes a good fisherman. This of course is just my opinion  but we really can't forget that many guys are members for the fun and friendship and not so much for the 6 man team. I think this club has survived for that reason.

Mel Hedrick
2013 Maple Bassmasters
Tournament Director

8:01 am
December 15, 2010


Mike U

Largemouth

posts 201

11
0

All "points" are well taken.  Sounds like our first meeting should be a blast.  If history serves me right-Maple has never been in the top three for the state.  I think the guys who have been in the club for a while just feel we have very qualified fishermen and can't believe it hasn't happened yet for us-even on our beloved Cal Sag.  Bleh.  As far as the "ultimate" six man team goes; we can now purchase our way to an entry.  Paying the $150.00 entry fee is a lot cheaper then paying for six plus tournaments.  Here again, you won't get your top finishers because most will be on the first team.  This being said-I believe you need a greater incentive for actually making-or wanting to make the team instead of picking five other guys you think you have a better chance with.  That IS where AOY totals would be a good idea.  When I started this club, Marty just wanted every guy to catch a fish.  Is that where we are still at as a club?  Sounds like giving every kid a trophy for participating in little league-sorry, I don't like that rule either.Cool

9:14 am
December 15, 2010


Ralph Sweat

Largemouth

posts 158

12
0

Well alot said ,after reviewiing the comments it makes me want to give a hard look at what the club is all about  iam sorry if this is all about me me and i i   you can count me out ..there r certain people in the club all they think about is there own shit ..i have been in this club for 2 yrs ..yes i fished with most ..but i tell you this ..some of my fishing trips  were terrible and to fish  with some of the most selfish people in the club was buy far not much fun.. ..so  yes  we take the good with the bad …..this is a club ..yes we have goals ..as a club and personal ..but billshit is bullshit ..hey if guys dont want to help each other  during the year then why would it change for a six man …what outlook would  we have to invite new comers to our club ..ok i ll admit i not a very good fisherman ..my fish count show for it ..but i ll tell you this as a member of this club ill  give 100% TO help another .and share  my experance with anyone . i almost quit last year because of certain people in this  club ..iam shure iam not liked by all ..but i try to be a better person as much as possible .if all that fish just want to go to six man ..well they should start a six man club on there own i know right now of some people who r doing this …the club is about learning ,sharing ,giving ,and helping .and most of all fun ..if theres no fun ..then this is not a club for future members ..my best time this year was helping the kids team at mill creek ..maple aloud me as a menber to be able to do this .  Maybe i got of the subject but iam with Mel and many others..iam on the six man this year .i have no idea of what to do at pool13 .as you know last year i had a bad time with one of our member.and that alone took the cake RALPH

10:31 am
December 15, 2010


Keats

Tinley Park, Il

Lunker

posts 53

13
0

My posts are not talking about the "6-man" I'm talking about the Mr.Bass race. Granted this year Zach earned it, and it doesn't matter what point system we would have used, he would have kicked our asses anyway. I was just adding my opinion on our current point system and how it could be better for future seasons. I heard many comments throughout the year from members about our new system and how it didn't work for everyone. Of cource these guys don't go on this board to talk about it so I figured I would. We all voted on this system last year and it was unanamous so unless someone comes up with good reasons to change it, we would have to keep it the same. This poll question was put out there to get peoples opinions and thats whats happening. I agree participation is a big part of this club but alot of us (who have young kids and some guys with no work) can't make all the tournaments during the year so we are basically penalized for not going to all the tournaments knowing that for just showing up guys gained 100 points on you that weekend.(try making up 100 points on anyone in this system), it's not gonna happen! especially if those same guys go to the rest of the tournaments and catch 1 fish per tourney. We all would love to fish every weekend but for some it's just not possible. This club lasted as long as it did with the origional point system (fish weight and meeting points) in place, even with Valiska winning every year. We say our club is unique since we don't fish for money just for points, but I think this system takes alot of the competitive aspect out of our club. We all love the feeling of competitive fishing or we would not haven joined a club. If we weren't looking for a competition we would just go fishing by ourselves and not fish tournaments. I would rather compete against everyone on the water not on this board.Kiss

2010 MAPLE BASSMASTERS PERSONNEL DIRECTOR

10:54 am
December 15, 2010


admin

Admin

posts 221

14
0

Ralph, I agree.  There are a couple in the club who can make trips not very fun.  To tell you the truth Ralph, one of my favorite tournaments last year was with you at Winneconne.  I learned as much at that tournament as any other I fished last year.  And I think we both had a good time that weekend. And that is what this club is all about!  Just like Mel and Ralph are commenting, having good times on the water with buddies!  I tottally agree and that is what makes me love this club. However, we have to take the good with the bad and unfotunetley we don't always have as good as times some weekends opposed to others.

 

However, if the club is all about commradere and having a good time, why get so upset about not making the six man team?  After all, we're not in the club to make the six man team, we're in it to enjoy the sport of fishing and fishing with friends!  Mel/Mike you are right, if you don't make the top six, you can pay your way.  And I agree that everyone needs to experience it, I'm pumped for it next year!  But just in the same way those who do not make the top six can opt to pay their way, in the proposed AOY point system, so to can the people who might not finish in the top 6 in the AOY standings. 

 

I'm a member of this club because I enjoy learning about the sport of bass fishing, I enjoy talking the sport of bass fishing and I enjoy spending time on the water with fellow members who are in it for the same reasons.   And because I enjoy the club so much, I want to see the club be the best it can be, and prove to other clubs around the region that we are the PREMIRE club in Illinois and we do it with good, honest guys who aren't out to cut each others throats. We're in the club for the right reasons.  We're promoting the sport in the right way.  By putting our best fisherman on one team and giving Maple its best shot at winning, which I think we can, we're proving that a club doesn't have to be put together just to win the 6-man, or put together just for money. 

 

I'm proud to be a part of this club for its values.  By winning the 6-man, I think we promote those values to the rest of the state.  This will only be done if we put our best anglers on the same team.

 

I'll step off the soap box now Laugh

 

11:00 am
December 15, 2010


admin

Admin

posts 221

15
0

Post edited 11:30 am – December 15, 2010 by Millertime


Jim, I agree that it is hard to catch up.  I find it har to believe though that they were bitching about not being able to compete for mr. bass and not the 6 man team? With the AOY standings determining the team, I bet those guys would not be bitching anymore.  Catch fish to make the top six in AOY or pay you way???  Right????

11:08 am
December 15, 2010


Ralph Sweat

Largemouth

posts 158

16
0

well said jimmy .WOW we have alot to dicuss at the board …we have great minds in maple we will figure it out also i was told windy city is dropping out of circuit cause the dues went to high so we might get some more new members….now being new to the board i am looking forward to helping whatever the cause …i hope there was  no pun intended just was speaking out from my experance in the past ..may your lines  be taunt and your reels be fast cause in 2011 we can kick some bassssssssssssssssssssssssss…ralph

11:15 am
December 15, 2010


Ralph Sweat

Largemouth

posts 158

17
0

we dont want to be an ed bone club i believe in the long run the best club always will win

11:59 am
December 15, 2010


admin

Admin

posts 221

18
0

Jim, I gave it some more thought Laugh  I think we agree that Mr. Bass should go to who PARTCIPATES the most.  That person is giving the most to the club and should be rewarded for his efforts.  For the anglers who can't make a good majority of the tournaments, sorry, your chance of being Mr. Bass isn't going to happen because you have other commitments.  However, if we base the 6-man on AOY standings, now there IS someting to keep fishing for!  The goal just gets switched from being Mr. Bass, to making the 6-man team.  No longer is it the same race.  We have one race for Mr. Bass, and one race for AOY.  This would INCREASE participation.

5:15 pm
December 15, 2010


Mike U

Largemouth

posts 201

19
0

My understanding of the points system as being explained quite a few times by Joey is it is like the system NASCAR uses.  Based on 100 cars, makes sense.  The new points system we have is also based on 100.  Do we have 100 members?  Not with guys fighting on forum boards we won't……  This being said, points should be based on a lower top number and hopefully things will level off in a way fair to all.  Everyone in the club would definitely like to make all/most of the tournaments-that is why they are members.  Economics and cashflow are now getting the best of us, so at this point the current system allows you to "buy" your way to the top if and only if you have the money do so and attend. 

 

This was the first year for the new system.  The chances of it being perfect on the first try is pretty much a long shot.  If the only vote or discussion we will have concerning the points is keep the new or go back to the old…I will have to go back to the old way.  There were glitches there too, but fewer at best.  Like  its been said-it was the same for many years.  Not to bring up money tournaments, BUT in those, if you zero-you receive zero.  Our old system at least is not that bad. 

5:19 pm
December 16, 2010


bluebass

Lunker

posts 33

20
0

I'm sorry that I'm getting older and have to go to bed earlier on tournament nights. I must have missed a lot of bad vibes last year. The point system that we currently have would  have produced a different Mr Bass most of the 35 years I have been in the club. Every one knows the rules before the first tournament so we need to get the issues squared away before we start the season.

We need to continue to communicate to our whole membership (all 30 guys). If a member is not on the board or does not access the internet then he will first learn about this conflict? at the January meeting if he attends. We used to get a newsletter mailed to us every month.  I know this a different world with face book and twitter but not everyone is hearing the same information.

As always I am willing to help any new or inexperienced member with bass info. As the first boater on Maple team I will hold a meeting after each of  our regular meetings on the 6 man tournament on Pool 13. Bring your maps.

As a communications teacher my goal is to get everyone to communicate better. As a bass fisherman my goal is to get better every day.

bluebass

ps Zak   Can anyone not in Maple get in this forum? When I read about people having hard feelings I could have sworn that I wasn't logged in. Also   All your entries are blank. I cannot read anything that you are saying and my computer says you are offline. I can read the entries from Jimmy, Mike, Ralph, Joey and Mel. Either sometihng is wrong with my computer or the website.



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